Issue with terminal connect/disconnect

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#1 Issue with terminal connect/disconnect

Hello, 

Here's an exemple where I added a terminal. It automatically created terminal no.18. I went into the terminal view and made the connection to terminal 10 instead. Now when looking at the schematics, it shows it is connected to terminal 10, but when I double click on it, it shows terminal 18.

Then in the terminal view, if I delete terminal 18, PWS3-- disapears from terminal 10. And if I try to connect terminal 10 back to PWS3--, it does not give me the choice for PWS3--, and there is no filter.

Any idea what is going on. I have this issue for a lot of terminals and I am trying to fix all of them but cannot figure out how.

 

Thank you

 

Yes

Thanks for posting on the forum.

Are you using distribution block terminals? If so, we know this is a bug in the official version. It seems to behaving better in the beta version (due to become the new official version by the end of the year).

Do you need a workaround from us? If so, do you want the terminal to be 10 or 18?

Yes, distribution terminal

Yes, this is while using distribution block terminals. I can wait until the official release but if you have a workaround, feel free to tell me.

Thanks.

OK

For more information on what you said:

I went into the terminal view and made the connection to terminal 10 instead. Now when looking at the schematics, it shows it is connected to terminal 10...
This is correct and how it is intended to work. Distribution block terminal numbers on the schematics can change based on how you define the connectivity in the terminal strip list view. For example, in your screenshot above, seeing as though you specified that TB1-10 must be connected to PWS--, SkyCAD changed the terminal number on the schematics to suit. The terminal strip layout and other information would update accordingly too.

...but when I double click on it, it shows terminal 18.
This is a bug.

Then in the terminal view, if I delete terminal 18, PWS3-- disapears from terminal 10. And if I try to connect terminal 10 back to PWS3--, it does not give me the choice for PWS3--,
Indeed, this is also a bug. SkyCAD does not properly consider the terminal bridges/jumpers for connectivity purposes. This is the cause of the issue. This behaves better in the beta version though, as SkyCAD better recognizes the terminal bridges/jumpers for connectivity purposes.

For now, your workaround is to ensure that the terminals that are bridged/jumpered together are also connected together on the schematics:

Please let us know if this helps (you may have to run Renumber Wires).

Works better but what about ground terminals?

Once all terminals are connected on the schematic, it works. But I seem to have the same problem with the ground terminals. Should I bridge ground terminals on the terminal block view? I don't want to connect the ground terminals on the schematics. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Hmmm...

So, your ground terminals are not bridged in the terminal strip or on the schematics? If that's true, then getting the same problem should be impossible. Unless, we're misunderstanding something.

What exactly are you trying to achieve with your ground terminals?

Should I bridge ground terminals or not?

The only way I found to be able to connect grounds to exactly the terminals I wanted to is to bridge all of them in the terminal view as well as on the schematics (which I don't like). But even then, when looking at a certain terminal on the schematics, it will still show that it is connected to terminal 32 even though I connected it to terminal 23 in the terminal view. And if I try to delete the terminals that are not used in the terminal view it screws everything up.

I must be doing it wrong. Maybe I must not bridge them at all?

No bridging of ground terminals should be required

The standard ground terminal symbols are not distribution terminals, so they do not behave the same way as distribution terminals.

You shouldn't have to bridge the ground terminals at all (terminal strip view or schematics). If you want terminal 32 on the schematics to become terminal 23 instead, you can use Move to position as shown in this tutorial at 2m25sec.

Please let us know if this helps.

I have now removed bridges everywhere

Ok, I have now removed bridges everywhere and I end up with something like this. Now, how can I move "PWS1-E" on terminal 22 right side and leave UPS1-E on terminal 22 left side? I need to move more than this but this is just an example.

 

Image: 
Terminal 22 needs to be physically connected to UPS1-E & PWS1-E

Terminal 22 needs to be physically connected to UPS1-E and PWS1-E on the schematics.

Could you upload a screenshot of your schematics please? It would help us to understand the exact dynamics you're in.

Ground terminals are bridge together by the din rail.

Usually, ground terminals are all implicitly bridged by the din rail and the backplate. So I would expect from the software to know that (at least for the same terminal block), and then be able to choose to connect any device to any terminal.

In other words, it is pretty much like distribution terminals all bridged together, but implicitly connected to ground.

 

Yes

So I would expect from the software to know that (at least for the same terminal block), and then be able to choose to connect any device to any terminal.
This is how distribution ground terminals would work. Unfortunately, we have an obstacle with that that we are working to resolve. Here is a forum discussion about that.

Currently, you should be able to do what you want to do, provided:

  • you bridge the ground terminals in the terminals strip view, and
  • the ground terminals carry the same wire numbers

Please let us know if you get the same behaviour.

 

Back to the original problem.

If I bridge all the ground terminals on the terminal strip view, I can then connect everything exactly as I want it to be. But this is leaving me with terminals that actually don't exist and I cannot delete them because they still seem to be linked to ground terminals on the schematics.

For now I will do it this way, but the problem is that the terminal strip shows terminals that don't exist and some of the ground terminals on the schematic show wrong terminal numbers.

 

Image: 
Just to add to the previous post.

For example, if I double click on a ground terminal on the schematic, it shows it is connected to terminal 29. But in fact, I connected it to terminal 25 in the terminal strip view. And when I select it on the schematics and click on the "terminal strip view" button, it brings me to terminal 25.

 

Image: 
Yes

But this is leaving me with terminals that actually don't exist and I cannot delete them because they still seem to be linked to ground terminals on the schematics.
Yes. The ground terminal symbols on the schematics are directly linked (1:1) to the ground terminals in the terminal strip list view, because they are not distribution block terminals.

You need ground distribution block terminals. Unfortunately, as mentioned in that other forum discussion, this doesn't work perfectly yet.

If you are open to the idea of using ground terminal symbols on your schematics that show the wire number instead of the terminal index number; e.g. they will show GND instead of TB1-29, then we have a solution for you that would result in you having the correct number of physical terminal. Is this a possibility for you?

Tried the proposed solution

Hello,

I tried the proposed solution from this post:https://my.skycad.ca/forums/got-question-got-issue/ground-terminals

I see too many problems with this solution.

Having to bridge the terminals on the terminal strip view is not a big issue, but you also have to bridge them together on the schematics, just like the issue discussed earlier in this forum with the distribution terminals.

The terminals obviously don't show up as ground terminals (the icon) in the terminal strip view.

I would also need to create a new part for the ground terminals because now when I want to assign a part from the catalog, if I choose the ground terminal I already have created, it will show "Stacked" next to the terminal number in the terminal strip view. Probably because I am assigning a ground terminal to a regular terminal.

I think I will just wait for the real fix.

Thank you

OK

We have a solution for you that does not require you to connect the ground terminals together on the schematics. However, this solution requires that you use ground terminals that show the wire number instead of the terminal index number; e.g. they will show GND instead of TB1-29.

If you would like to try this, please let us know.

Yes, I could try that.

Yes I would like to try this.

Sorry for the late reply

Sorry for the late reply. It took longer than expected for us to make the symbol.

Please:

  1. Download the attached file
  2. Close SkyCAD
  3. Move the attached file to the following location (assuming your environment is on your C drive):
    "C:\SkyCAD Environments\Standard Environment\Catalogue\root class\SkyCad specific Classes\Graphical Element\graphical object\graphical block\work block\Graphical terminal junction"
  4. Double-click on the file to open it in SkyCAD
  5. Right-click on it in the tree view and choose Copy
  6. Right-click on the symbol library folder you want to put it in (e.g. Terminals/Connectors) and choose Paste

Insert that symbol onto a GND connection and it should say GND. Also, if you use these terminals, and bridge them together on the terminal strip list view (not schematics) then you should be able to achieve what you want.

Please let us know how it goes!

Attachment

We forgot the attachment the first time!